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	<title>Comments on: The Rhetoric of Hate</title>
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	<description>News, Photography, Blogs &#38; Analysis</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 12:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Armenia &#38; the South Caucasus &#124; The Caucasian Knot &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Armenia: United Opposition</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/30/the-rhetoric-of-hate/#comment-7563</link>
		<dc:creator>Armenia &#38; the South Caucasus &#124; The Caucasian Knot &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Armenia: United Opposition</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 05:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] them for for toning down rhetoric which in the past has been considered by some observers to be divisive and confrontational. [&#8230;] This rally was noticeable by the absence (as much as I followed the speeches) of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] them for for toning down rhetoric which in the past has been considered by some observers to be divisive and confrontational. [&#8230;] This rally was noticeable by the absence (as much as I followed the speeches) of [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Onnik</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/30/the-rhetoric-of-hate/#comment-6851</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/30/the-rhetoric-of-hate/#comment-6851</guid>
		<description>Apologies, I had used the pics before, but forgot.

http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/25/levon-ter-petrossian-protests-continue/

Taken so many bloody photos I can't remember.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies, I had used the pics before, but forgot.</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/25/levon-ter-petrossian-protests-continue/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/25/levon-ter-petrossian-protests-continue/</a></p>
<p>Taken so many bloody photos I can&#8217;t remember.</p>
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		<title>By: Aram</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/30/the-rhetoric-of-hate/#comment-6849</link>
		<dc:creator>Aram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/30/the-rhetoric-of-hate/#comment-6849</guid>
		<description>Armen - Might your use of the word hate be a bit misplaced here?  I would venture to guess (only a guess, and no less accurately than you) that fewer "hate" Serj than Levon.  In any case, this is somewhat of an inane exercise (who hates which oligrachic leader more).  I do not deny that hundreds staged round-the-clock demonstrations in the Opera...as you say, So What?

That there are disenfranchised and dispossessed people in Armenia shouuld come as no suprise.  This existed during the soviet time when secretly people would state that if only allowed to work freely, Armenians would make Armenia blossom.  The nadir of hopelessness and outright neglect may have reached its low point in the mid-90s when the thievocracy was all-controling.  Now I do not think that the authorities have run Armenia in a perfect manner, but from most accounts (other than those few who have their fortunes or power directly tied to this clan or that clan), things have improved.

Investments are up, tourism is up, pro-government folks *sometimes* (though of course, not with frequency that would engender fairness) lose in courts, demographic slide has been stopped, etc.  Of course, all this can be argued against: reform is too slow, positive changes not fast enough, oligarch structure perpetuated etc.  My point is that there are some people who defend the system, and not just those who disproportionately benefit.  There are many who have simple desires: peace, stability, a chance to raise their children and have tomorrow be incrementally better than yesterday.  They are risk-averse and they do not welcome unknown (or worse, known evil) change.

In any case, I do not think that the authorities are doomed to anything, much less because some Europeans may or may not like them.  I think the success of the new administration remains to be seen.  If the 1st 3 appointments (defense minister, FM, and PM) are any indication, the sense on the street is more positive, or at least wait-and-see than anything else.  After all, consider the alternatives of who may have been named:  all three have decent reputations in terms of competence, intelligence, and track record.

Time will tell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Armen - Might your use of the word hate be a bit misplaced here?  I would venture to guess (only a guess, and no less accurately than you) that fewer &#8220;hate&#8221; Serj than Levon.  In any case, this is somewhat of an inane exercise (who hates which oligrachic leader more).  I do not deny that hundreds staged round-the-clock demonstrations in the Opera&#8230;as you say, So What?</p>
<p>That there are disenfranchised and dispossessed people in Armenia shouuld come as no suprise.  This existed during the soviet time when secretly people would state that if only allowed to work freely, Armenians would make Armenia blossom.  The nadir of hopelessness and outright neglect may have reached its low point in the mid-90s when the thievocracy was all-controling.  Now I do not think that the authorities have run Armenia in a perfect manner, but from most accounts (other than those few who have their fortunes or power directly tied to this clan or that clan), things have improved.</p>
<p>Investments are up, tourism is up, pro-government folks *sometimes* (though of course, not with frequency that would engender fairness) lose in courts, demographic slide has been stopped, etc.  Of course, all this can be argued against: reform is too slow, positive changes not fast enough, oligarch structure perpetuated etc.  My point is that there are some people who defend the system, and not just those who disproportionately benefit.  There are many who have simple desires: peace, stability, a chance to raise their children and have tomorrow be incrementally better than yesterday.  They are risk-averse and they do not welcome unknown (or worse, known evil) change.</p>
<p>In any case, I do not think that the authorities are doomed to anything, much less because some Europeans may or may not like them.  I think the success of the new administration remains to be seen.  If the 1st 3 appointments (defense minister, FM, and PM) are any indication, the sense on the street is more positive, or at least wait-and-see than anything else.  After all, consider the alternatives of who may have been named:  all three have decent reputations in terms of competence, intelligence, and track record.</p>
<p>Time will tell.</p>
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		<title>By: Armen Filadelfiatsi</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/30/the-rhetoric-of-hate/#comment-6844</link>
		<dc:creator>Armen Filadelfiatsi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 04:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/30/the-rhetoric-of-hate/#comment-6844</guid>
		<description>Aram,

Except tens of thousands of supporters gravitated to Levon, unless you are willing to say that a veritable tent city of people on a round-the-clock sitting-in for change for ten days up until getting violently attacked and regrouping at the French embassy and elsewhere where they were attacked again and killed and who are still not done yet is a "low turnout."

Levon was "effectively" calling for a rebellion, you say.

So?

The Serjokocharianic thievocracy is doomed to failure.  There is a system in place in the world whereby tyranny is not tolerated if it is so explicit.  Because European diplomats, when they're sitting with other European diplomats, don't like the stink of an out and out mafia goon sitting with them, especially not when he's a mafia goon addicted to gambling.

The Armenian people hate Serj Sarkissian, and they hate Rober Kocharian.  And there is nothing shameful about that.  And, by the way, I never said that I agree with Ishkhanian's philosophy about the world, no.  I said I respect his reporting.

Onnik, you're trying not to take sides because you think that is the right thing for you to do as a journalist, I'm guessing.  I understand that.  But it just could be the case that the world is not set up that way: maybe the thing to do at this juncture in world history is take a side.  You know, Come on back to the War, don't be a Tourist, as Leonard Cohen puts it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aram,</p>
<p>Except tens of thousands of supporters gravitated to Levon, unless you are willing to say that a veritable tent city of people on a round-the-clock sitting-in for change for ten days up until getting violently attacked and regrouping at the French embassy and elsewhere where they were attacked again and killed and who are still not done yet is a &#8220;low turnout.&#8221;</p>
<p>Levon was &#8220;effectively&#8221; calling for a rebellion, you say.</p>
<p>So?</p>
<p>The Serjokocharianic thievocracy is doomed to failure.  There is a system in place in the world whereby tyranny is not tolerated if it is so explicit.  Because European diplomats, when they&#8217;re sitting with other European diplomats, don&#8217;t like the stink of an out and out mafia goon sitting with them, especially not when he&#8217;s a mafia goon addicted to gambling.</p>
<p>The Armenian people hate Serj Sarkissian, and they hate Rober Kocharian.  And there is nothing shameful about that.  And, by the way, I never said that I agree with Ishkhanian&#8217;s philosophy about the world, no.  I said I respect his reporting.</p>
<p>Onnik, you&#8217;re trying not to take sides because you think that is the right thing for you to do as a journalist, I&#8217;m guessing.  I understand that.  But it just could be the case that the world is not set up that way: maybe the thing to do at this juncture in world history is take a side.  You know, Come on back to the War, don&#8217;t be a Tourist, as Leonard Cohen puts it.</p>
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		<title>By: Aram</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/30/the-rhetoric-of-hate/#comment-6831</link>
		<dc:creator>Aram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 11:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/30/the-rhetoric-of-hate/#comment-6831</guid>
		<description>Armen, were you at the rallies?  Do you think this is out of context?  Levon was exhorting the troops, effectively calling for rebellion against the state (not just the government).  Your analogy to Hitler is appropriate in more ways than just body language.  the photos do not capture the "half Armenian-half Karabakhtsi" racist rhetoric, nor the Mongol-Tatar hate-speech.

I agree with you that the Ishkhanyan article captured the hate-tone quite accurately.  This is the primary reason, I think, why so few gravitated to Levon during the election campaign, despite the high level of dissatisfaction in society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Armen, were you at the rallies?  Do you think this is out of context?  Levon was exhorting the troops, effectively calling for rebellion against the state (not just the government).  Your analogy to Hitler is appropriate in more ways than just body language.  the photos do not capture the &#8220;half Armenian-half Karabakhtsi&#8221; racist rhetoric, nor the Mongol-Tatar hate-speech.</p>
<p>I agree with you that the Ishkhanyan article captured the hate-tone quite accurately.  This is the primary reason, I think, why so few gravitated to Levon during the election campaign, despite the high level of dissatisfaction in society.</p>
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		<title>By: Onnik</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/30/the-rhetoric-of-hate/#comment-6829</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 08:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/30/the-rhetoric-of-hate/#comment-6829</guid>
		<description>Incidentally, I do also believe that the rhetoric of rallies was becoming increasingly militant and that is depicted in my photos. As for balanced, well, all I can say is that at rallies attended days before or actually at the same time, I photographed and posted other photos.

http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/24/babe-theory-of-political-movements/

http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/25/levon-ter-petrossian-protests-continue/

http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/02/levon-ter-petrossian-rally-28-february-2008/





That to me is balanced. A Serge supporter, for example, might instead ask why I was posting "positive" images and not concentrating on some other element they considered more appropriate. Basically, whatever I do, I can't win when it comes to the supporters of both sides when I choose photos based on context.

Unfortunately, I wasn't there when Levon was dancing, but I had been, I would have posted those for any appropriate text too. You'll also note that it took me a week before I actually used the images which kind of indicates that I didn't want to use them for the main rally coverage rather than jump in and try to sour the other images of protesters.

Incidentally, I think the images were taken at the last but one rally I attended, but the info should all be there on the Flickr page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally, I do also believe that the rhetoric of rallies was becoming increasingly militant and that is depicted in my photos. As for balanced, well, all I can say is that at rallies attended days before or actually at the same time, I photographed and posted other photos.</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/24/babe-theory-of-political-movements/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/24/babe-theory-of-political-movements/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/25/levon-ter-petrossian-protests-continue/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/25/levon-ter-petrossian-protests-continue/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/02/levon-ter-petrossian-rally-28-february-2008/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/02/levon-ter-petrossian-rally-28-february-2008/</a></p>
<p>That to me is balanced. A Serge supporter, for example, might instead ask why I was posting &#8220;positive&#8221; images and not concentrating on some other element they considered more appropriate. Basically, whatever I do, I can&#8217;t win when it comes to the supporters of both sides when I choose photos based on context.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I wasn&#8217;t there when Levon was dancing, but I had been, I would have posted those for any appropriate text too. You&#8217;ll also note that it took me a week before I actually used the images which kind of indicates that I didn&#8217;t want to use them for the main rally coverage rather than jump in and try to sour the other images of protesters.</p>
<p>Incidentally, I think the images were taken at the last but one rally I attended, but the info should all be there on the Flickr page.</p>
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		<title>By: Onnik</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/30/the-rhetoric-of-hate/#comment-6828</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 07:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/30/the-rhetoric-of-hate/#comment-6828</guid>
		<description>Armen, well, sorry you feel like that. However, I would say that it is not possible to call photography a balanced form of journalism as we merely take what is in front of us, and on that day, this is what LTP was like. It was the last demo I went to in Liberty Square from what I remember. 

Anyway, photos are usually put together as stand alones or a series of photos with text written to accompany the story they tell. Or, the most appropriate photos are chosen to accompany a piece and are chosen to depict what the story tells.

So, that's what's happened. Actually, I killed two birds with one stone, so to speak. Firstly, I wanted to use these last pics of LTP sometime, and they fitted in with the article. Basically, I dispute them as being a "cheap shot" because any photo editor would have done the same.

And also, there was no intention to "use" his "physical defect" (I assume you mean his eye?) and anyway, that's pretty much impossible to do if only because it's always like that, no? As for Hitler, I'd like to point out that early photos from last year were taken from my site by Serge's supporters and modified in Photoshop (adding mustache etc) to actually turn him into Hitler.

As is well known, I fought that and had them removed after threatening legal action. Anyway, a photographer's job is to depict what was there, and at the last LTP rally I was at, this was how it was. I'd also post pictures that I'm sure supporters of say, Serge, wouldn't like. My interest is depicting what is happening and not engaging in PR for who I photograph.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Armen, well, sorry you feel like that. However, I would say that it is not possible to call photography a balanced form of journalism as we merely take what is in front of us, and on that day, this is what LTP was like. It was the last demo I went to in Liberty Square from what I remember. </p>
<p>Anyway, photos are usually put together as stand alones or a series of photos with text written to accompany the story they tell. Or, the most appropriate photos are chosen to accompany a piece and are chosen to depict what the story tells.</p>
<p>So, that&#8217;s what&#8217;s happened. Actually, I killed two birds with one stone, so to speak. Firstly, I wanted to use these last pics of LTP sometime, and they fitted in with the article. Basically, I dispute them as being a &#8220;cheap shot&#8221; because any photo editor would have done the same.</p>
<p>And also, there was no intention to &#8220;use&#8221; his &#8220;physical defect&#8221; (I assume you mean his eye?) and anyway, that&#8217;s pretty much impossible to do if only because it&#8217;s always like that, no? As for Hitler, I&#8217;d like to point out that early photos from last year were taken from my site by Serge&#8217;s supporters and modified in Photoshop (adding mustache etc) to actually turn him into Hitler.</p>
<p>As is well known, I fought that and had them removed after threatening legal action. Anyway, a photographer&#8217;s job is to depict what was there, and at the last LTP rally I was at, this was how it was. I&#8217;d also post pictures that I&#8217;m sure supporters of say, Serge, wouldn&#8217;t like. My interest is depicting what is happening and not engaging in PR for who I photograph.</p>
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		<title>By: Armen Filadelfiatsi</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/30/the-rhetoric-of-hate/#comment-6827</link>
		<dc:creator>Armen Filadelfiatsi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 01:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/30/the-rhetoric-of-hate/#comment-6827</guid>
		<description>The photos make LTP look like Hitler, Onnik.  Is that balanced reporting?  What with him shaking his fist in one photo, in the other bearing down with a pointed finger, and in the last one looking stern and aloof---and all three using his physical defect as a crutch for their emotional impact...  A cheap shot, I'm sorry to say.  

The writing might be crawling toward balanced, but the photos aren't---they've been hand-picked to bring out the worst in the subject.  Maybe you picked them with the intention of supporting Ishkhanian's article, a journalist I, myself, respect, but in that case you displayed as much of an unexamined belief in 18th century liberal-humanism as he does.  Examined, it's a good thing; unexamined, it leads to mistaken conclusions, and this article that will end up doing more damage than good is a case in point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The photos make LTP look like Hitler, Onnik.  Is that balanced reporting?  What with him shaking his fist in one photo, in the other bearing down with a pointed finger, and in the last one looking stern and aloof&#8212;and all three using his physical defect as a crutch for their emotional impact&#8230;  A cheap shot, I&#8217;m sorry to say.  </p>
<p>The writing might be crawling toward balanced, but the photos aren&#8217;t&#8212;they&#8217;ve been hand-picked to bring out the worst in the subject.  Maybe you picked them with the intention of supporting Ishkhanian&#8217;s article, a journalist I, myself, respect, but in that case you displayed as much of an unexamined belief in 18th century liberal-humanism as he does.  Examined, it&#8217;s a good thing; unexamined, it leads to mistaken conclusions, and this article that will end up doing more damage than good is a case in point.</p>
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		<title>By: Onnik</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/30/the-rhetoric-of-hate/#comment-6260</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 07:56:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/30/the-rhetoric-of-hate/#comment-6260</guid>
		<description>Aram, as I said in the post, Ishkhanyan has his own axe to grind as not only is he more in opposition to the present authorities as a human rights journalist, but he was also in opposition to Ter-Petrossian in the 1990s.

BTW: His brother is leading human rights activist Avetik Ishkhanyan. Both of them seem to be more connected to Vazgen Manukian than other opposition leaders.

Actually, this is why I think Armenia Now has taken the format that it has at present -- critical pieces of Sargsyan and critical pieces of Ter-Petrossian. Basically, it represents two different views among its journalists.

Yes, that's not good as the publication should be objective when dealing with both, but on the other hand, the fact that there are journalists in the same publication indirectly linked to Ter-Petrossian AND Vazgen Manukian has meant we have both views represented in the same publication.

However, I agree, that I've liked Ishkhanyan's writing of late, but stress that he's also been highly critical of Kocharian, Sargsyan and the oligarchs. Take this piece, for example:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Mean Streets: A rare look at Armenia’s Capital clans

Editor’s Note: The matter of clan rule is accepted, respected in the 11 districts that make up Yerevan. It is a peculiarity of life in the capital that is as real as reckless traffic and ineffective water delivery. It is not, however, an issue that can be “officially” documented. Veteran award-winning journalist Vahan Ishkhanyan is a student of the history of Yerevan, his home. This report is based on knowledge he has accumulated over many years of reporting about the city, and on information that, though far from official documentation, is nonetheless maintained as fact. It is an understood, but rarely public, account of how the city really works. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

http://www.armenianow.com/?action=viewArticle&#038;IID=1071&#038;AID=1390&#038;lng=eng

A very brave piece and as someone said to me during last year's parliamentary election, the closest thing we have to proper democracy in Armenia is when journalists are against everything -- the government and the opposition. Let's face it, with the exception of Heritage, perhaps, they all work in the same way and have little to offer the country but more of the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aram, as I said in the post, Ishkhanyan has his own axe to grind as not only is he more in opposition to the present authorities as a human rights journalist, but he was also in opposition to Ter-Petrossian in the 1990s.</p>
<p>BTW: His brother is leading human rights activist Avetik Ishkhanyan. Both of them seem to be more connected to Vazgen Manukian than other opposition leaders.</p>
<p>Actually, this is why I think Armenia Now has taken the format that it has at present &#8212; critical pieces of Sargsyan and critical pieces of Ter-Petrossian. Basically, it represents two different views among its journalists.</p>
<p>Yes, that&#8217;s not good as the publication should be objective when dealing with both, but on the other hand, the fact that there are journalists in the same publication indirectly linked to Ter-Petrossian AND Vazgen Manukian has meant we have both views represented in the same publication.</p>
<p>However, I agree, that I&#8217;ve liked Ishkhanyan&#8217;s writing of late, but stress that he&#8217;s also been highly critical of Kocharian, Sargsyan and the oligarchs. Take this piece, for example:</p>
<blockquote><p>Mean Streets: A rare look at Armenia’s Capital clans</p>
<p>Editor’s Note: The matter of clan rule is accepted, respected in the 11 districts that make up Yerevan. It is a peculiarity of life in the capital that is as real as reckless traffic and ineffective water delivery. It is not, however, an issue that can be “officially” documented. Veteran award-winning journalist Vahan Ishkhanyan is a student of the history of Yerevan, his home. This report is based on knowledge he has accumulated over many years of reporting about the city, and on information that, though far from official documentation, is nonetheless maintained as fact. It is an understood, but rarely public, account of how the city really works. </p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.armenianow.com/?action=viewArticle&#038;IID=1071&#038;AID=1390&#038;lng=eng" rel="nofollow">http://www.armenianow.com/?action=viewArticle&#038;IID=1071&#038;AID=1390&#038;lng=eng</a></p>
<p>A very brave piece and as someone said to me during last year&#8217;s parliamentary election, the closest thing we have to proper democracy in Armenia is when journalists are against everything &#8212; the government and the opposition. Let&#8217;s face it, with the exception of Heritage, perhaps, they all work in the same way and have little to offer the country but more of the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Aram</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/30/the-rhetoric-of-hate/#comment-6232</link>
		<dc:creator>Aram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 22:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/30/the-rhetoric-of-hate/#comment-6232</guid>
		<description>Strange change of tone from Armenia Now...usually very much the apologist for LTP.

In any case, a well-written and sober piece.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Strange change of tone from Armenia Now&#8230;usually very much the apologist for LTP.</p>
<p>In any case, a well-written and sober piece.</p>
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