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1. GT 03.07.08 / 6am

   Onnik, it is amazing how much technicalities play such an important role in your judgements. To be born in Moscow or having a Russian passport does not make kharabaxci a russian.
   However, I am against dividing people by their place of birth. Why not just judge by their deeds. For example Dodi Gago has been growing rich from the very beginning of the Gorbachevs perestroika and is very much self made millionaire. I don’t know where Baghdasarovs initial money comes from, but I know that Armenian Airlines were artificially made bankrupt in order to pass its vast assets to SS crony, does not matter his place of birth.
2. Onnik 03.07.08 / 11am

   GT, answer the damn question. We all know that the system of oligarchs came into existence under Ter-Petrossian and continues under Kocharian. The way Khachatur Sukiasian made his money with Vano’s assistance is equally disgusting.

   My point is RFE/RL and Ter-Petrossian saying that all of the main assets are controlled by people from Karabakh. Like I said, give me names apart from Kocharian and Sargsyan. Obviously, you can’t, but boy, what an argument…

   To be born in Moscow or having a Russian passport does not make kharabaxci a russian.

   Give us all a run down of Bagdasarov’s family for the past 200 years and we might all be able to take you seriously. Otherwise you just come across as a fanatical Ter-Petrossian supporter. Argue your case with facts!

   Me? Technicalities? Sorry, but it’s a big bloody technicality when RFE/RL makes the entire economy sound as though it’s controlled only by people from Karabakh when no evidence is provided by you or them.

   Moreover, the only two people other than Serge they quote are two Ter-Petrossian supporters. Not only that, they tie their argument which is not adequately argued into resolution of the Karabakh conflict in such a way that it would appear that RFE/RL are now arguing for regime change in Armenia.

   Fine, but please, give us something more concrete and show your true colors rather than pretend to be independent and interested in just reporting the facts. Like I said, if this is true, I want to know. So, please, someone out there — and there are enough Ter-Petrossian people reading this blog — give us all names.

   Is it so hard to identify the main figures who control the economy and highlight where they were born — or god forbid, if it’s too difficult, where their parents or grandparents were born?
3. Onnik 03.07.08 / 12pm

   BTW: What did you mean by this?

   Dodi Gago has been growing rich from the very beginning of the Gorbachevs perestroika and is very much self made millionaire.

   I wonder if you wrote it because you can’t bring yourself to write, yeah, Ter-Petrossian really disappointed with what he said about Tsarukian.

   Or maybe you do think that Tsarukian is a “moral man” as Ter-Petrossian said, or a “self made millionaire” as you say. Funny thing was, none of you said it before Ter-Petrossian tried to win him over.

   Indeed, Tsarukian was considered the most corrupt and criminal of all the oligarchs by everyone now singing the praises of Ter-Petrossian and hoping for revolution.

   Or did you really mean it, which then leads on to the next question. Does that therefore make you happy when you consider that Tsarukian is now part of a power sharing arrangement with Sargsyan?

   Of course, best not mention the guys Ter-Petrossian’s people said beat up their proxies in Abovian on polling station, right? I just wonder if you can’t bring yourself to do anything other than agree with anything Ter-Petrossian says, and disagree with anything anyone else does.

   Besides, Tsarukian is not a Karabaghtsi so that pretty much discredits RFE/RL’s argument. The article also mentions sugar, but the guy who controls that was born in Armenia. And so on.

   No, this article was designed to be an attempt to explain the need for regime change by tenuously bringing in a Karabakh-resolution argument.

   Anyway.

   To be born in Moscow or having a Russian passport does not make kharabaxci a russian.

   No, it makes them a Russian-Armenian, or a Russian citizen of Armenian extraction unless you know want to break the declaration of human rights and adhere to the logic of racism. Besides, you don’t even know if Bagdasarov’s family is Karabaghtsi, do you?

   Indeed, there’s nothing at all I can find. Instead, he was an ethnic Armenian born in Moscow. Arguably the two most powerful oligarchs under both administrations were Gagik Tsarukian and Khachatur Sukiasian. The first is considered Kocharian’s creation, the second, Ter-Petrossian’s. Both were also born in Armenia.

   I ask any reader out there again — please provide me a list of the ten richest men in Armenia and where they were born. Obviously, if the RFE/RL article is correct at least 75 percent should have been born in Nagorno Karabakh.

   Serious allegations are made in the RFE/RL article, but no facts have been presented to back them up. If it’s true, we all need to know.
4. Aram 03.07.08 / 10pm

   Onnik, to further your point, the whole Levon propaganda machine is easily self-refutable: just ask the hysterical demagogue Pashinyan to quote from himself what he has written about Jahangiryan, Tsarukyan, Lady Hakob, and other luminaries in the past…but once pandered to by Levon, they become part of the cult, and are moral, our allies, etc.

   Depressing to me is that there are so many young Armenians who never endured communism to now swallow Levon’s bolshevik sloganeering hook, line, and sinker.
5. Michael Lalpin 03.08.08 / 12am

   Onnik,
   Thank you for your patient analysis of commentators on your blog!
   It brings forth the superficiality of some arguments that smell of provocation and misinformation.
   Good work, looking forward, as always ,to your reports.
6. Onnik 03.08.08 / 1am

   Michael, I think you’re being sarcastic, but anyway. Just to say that I find this environment of polarization and propaganda from both sides infuriating and very dangerous.

   We need to tackle the problems in Armenia on a non-partisan basis, in my opinion. We’re pretty sure there should have been a second round, we’re pretty sure that Ter-Petrossian got less votes than Sargsyan.

   And we know that this situation is tearing the country apart.

   I welcome arguments in support of Ter-Petrossian, in support of Sargsyan, against either or both. But please, let’s speak openly and not beat around the bush. Let’s also base our arguments on opinions backed up by facts where possible.
7. Michael Lalpin 03.08.08 / 4am

   Onnik,
   I am sorry to have given you the impression that YOUR analyzing and conclusions were in any shape or form to be doubted for it’s balance.
   I was pointing to the obvious comment posters, OTHER then yourself, that blatently were partizan in their opinions.
   Your unbiased posts are very much appreciated since I have been following your blog.
   Thanks again.
8. Artashes 03.08.08 / 9am

   Onnik, sometimes you are too emotional, sometimes prejudiced, but YOU GOT THE BASICS RIGHT, and I salute you!! Let everybody get as much objectivity as you have, and the meaningful dialog would already be happening!

   “We’re pretty sure there should have been a second round, we’re pretty sure that Ter-Petrossian got less votes than Sargsyan.
   And we know that this situation is tearing the country apart.”

   Simple truths!! And voluntarily blinded people who cannot bring themselves to face them… So sad…
9. Artashes 03.08.08 / 10am

   Ok, now that I read the RFE/RL article, I should stress your emotionality again, Onnik. From reading your post I first got the clear impression that RFE/RL states that MOST oligarchs in Armenia are the newcomers from Karabakh. Well, the article never states or even alludes to that. As a matter of fact, the author, Brian Whitmore, is careful to put all such statements in quotation marks coming from the mouth of LTP, Aram Abramian or Stepan Grigorian. And even they never state that MOST oligarchs are from Karabakh.
   The only serious drawback of the article is that the opposite point of view is not also voiced in direct speech.

   I still think you are absolutely right about the basics, but on details this is not the first time you are carried away. A little.
10. Onnik 03.08.08 / 11am

    Artashes, in my opinion, the article implies that most of those controlling key areas of the economy are from Karabakh. Moreover, the article is not balanced.

    Rather than frame the riots and protests in the context of part of the electorate who were fed up with Kocharian and Serge they tried to paint a picture of an Armenia under almost total domination of the Karabakh clan.

    Indeed, there is no basis for that argument — although the fact that many Armenians don’t want someone from Karabakh ruling over them is true enough — so I’d say, sure, write an article on corruption and the oligarchs.

    Slotting it in to an article on the “Karabakh clan,” however, is not good journalism. As you say, Ter-Petrossian is quoted but nobody other than his supporters were approached for quotes to say what he alleges is way over the top (as usual).

    I also question the inclusion of Mika Bagdasarov as part of the Karabakh clan.

    As for being emotional, this is a blog and from time to time I’m allowed to be when I see article designed not to inform but to stir up support for Ter-Petrossian are published in the international media.

    We need balanced reporting now and nothing short of that. It’s why I can only now consider the international news wires such as AFP, Reuters, NYT etc as the only reliable sources of information from Armenia.

    And yes, in case you were wondering, they do have people on the ground.
11. Onnik 03.08.08 / 12pm

    Also, if people are going to talk about the criminality of the oligarchs there are also a few points that should be noted. Firstly, that the system started under Ter-Petrossian. Understandable perhaps because one doubts that any former Soviet republic was spared the same. Secondly, however, is that despite labeling these guys thugs, criminals and mafia in January, Ter-Petrossian declared some of them to be heroes, moral men and all the rest of it the following month when he hoped they would switch to his side.

    “Keep your fortune under me,” he pretty much said, “but lose it under Serge.” Add to that lower-rank hoodlums such as Hakob Hakobian (Lady Hakob) who were criminals one day, heroes of the revolution the next, and I can’t really see that anything would change in this area under Ter-Petrossian.

    Indeed, as his campaign as pretty much based on stoking up hatred rather than putting forward ideas, policies and programs (or when he did he said quite another thing on the same subject when it suited him — Karabakh and the oligarchs being two such examples), one supposes all that would happen is that there would be a redistribution of wealth and property among those who did side with him at the expense of those which didn’t.

    So, back to this article. It was all over the place, started off as a “Karabaghtsi control all key areas of the economy” without anything to back the argument up. Indeed, it made some mistakes (sugar, for example, is under the control of Lfik Samo — born in Yerevan — and Baghdasarov is a Russian Armenian) as well as bringing up unconnected examples to push this theory probably because it seemed cool at the time.
12. GT 03.08.08 / 2pm

    Unfortunately I do not know what is the legal status of Serj Sarkisians brother in the USA, but by your math, the day he acquires a USA passport he will become an armenian-american, not kharabakhci. Then there will be no need to ask question from where a former bus driver got 30 million dollars for a real estate development on the one of the most expensive markets.
13. Onnik 03.08.08 / 2pm

    No, GT, not at all. Again, you are unable to respond properly or with any sense of logic and refuse to address the matter at hand.

    Unfortunately I do not know what is the legal status of Serj Sarkisians brother in the USA, but by your math, the day he acquires a USA passport he will become an armenian-american, not kharabakhci.

    Firstly, assuming that Serge Sargsyan’s brother were to take U.S. citizenship and drops his Armenian citizenship even though a law on dual citizenship exists and he sits in the Armenian National Assembly, your attempt to argue your point fails.

    Regardless of whether he is an American or Armenian citizen, although he has the right to describe himself as he wishes, he would still have been born in Nagorno Karabakh. This is the point and it’s quite clearly made above even if you choose not to read and think properly.

    Otherwise, we can actually state quite categorically that there is no such thing as an Armenian-Armenian because quite literally, people have bloodlines here originating on one or both sides of their family to Turkey, Iran, Georgia and god knows where else, including Nagorno Karabakh.

    Levon Ter-Petrossian, for example, was born in Syria, and when it comes to Nagorno Karabakh, the term “Karabakh clan” literally refers to those people who were born in the territory and moved to Armenia to take up economic and political positions of power under Kocharian.

    However, while your argument about Sargsyan’s brother is incorrect, it is true that by virtue of the fact that he was born in Karabakh, came to Armenia, and occupies a position of economic and political power does make him a part of the “Karabakh clan.”

    Interestingly, it would be examples such as that I would have liked to have seen mentioned in the article although once again I state that is incorrect to state that the “Karabakh clan” controls all the most profitable areas of the economy.

    On the other hand, Sargsyan’s brother was used as an example of why the Armenian-born oligarchs might lose their wealth and property under the president-elect. However, the article was badly written, researched and didn’t make its point clearly or in a balanced fashion.

    A much better article would have been one on the oligarchal system, the attempt by Ter-Petrossian to have them switch sides, and the way in which the concept of the “Karabakh clan” was used to raise animosity among the population and fear of losing everything among Armenia’s oligarchs.

    Then there will be no need to ask question from where a former bus driver got 30 million dollars for a real estate development on the one of the most expensive markets.

    And by your logic, we can ask such questions of people born in Karabakh, but not where the many more millions accrued by Armenia-born oligarchs such as Armenia-born Gagik Tsarukian (Kocharian supporter) and Khachatur Sukiasian (Ter-Petrossian supporter) came from? Again, my argument is this. Decry corruption by all means, but please, as it is commonplace and spread among figures in government, opposition and the Diaspora, wherever they were born, let’s analyze the situation properly.
14. GT 03.09.08 / 1am

    Onnik, if you read carefully my first post you will see, that I am arguing that a person should not be judged based on what passport(s) they got, but on their deeds.
    LTP unfortunately uses all and every campaign tricks to attract votes on his side. Among them regional belonging.
    It does appeal to some layer of armenian society and getting them on his side is easily achieved by playing that card. One of the dirty trick, commonly used in election campaigns across the world.
    But it would not be possible if RK and SS were not UNLAWFULLY dominating every sphere (political, economical) of republics life. I think it is valid to refer to these two as a clan, and as a distinction, their Kharabakh origin sticks the most obviously.
    I never been against people becoming rich, regardless their origin. The stratification of society is inevitable in a country transforming from “soviet socialist” state to a wild capitalism. Oligarchic economy is proper not only to Armenia, but many other former Soviet republics. However if you glance at a map you will note that further you get from the Europe to Asia, the worst is the above mentioned effect. What differs significantly RK/SS from LTP is that these two are not only un-democratic, un-lawfull politicians, but they are also oligarchs themselves.
    Gagik Tsarukian should be made pay taxes and not mix his lawmaker activities with own business. And it is prerogative of the state. But when the president of the state or prime minister uses him as a device to enrich themselves, then the laws of governance of the country are broken completely. The country becomes a feudal by its nature, forget democracy. The examples of such countries you can find only in central Asia, not even latin american banana republics could be used as comparison. That is the argument against RK/SS and as a consequence in favor of LTP, not the manner how elections were conducted after 1996. None of the was democratic anyway.
15. Onnik 03.09.08 / 3pm

    But it would not be possible if RK and SS were not UNLAWFULLY dominating every sphere (political, economical) of republics life. I think it is valid to refer to these two as a clan, and as a distinction, their Kharabakh origin sticks the most obviously.

    Nobody will disagree here, but that’s not what the article said and that’s the point of this comments thread. It should also be pointed out that this top-down system was one of Ter-Petrossian’s design and used when it suited him.

    The constitution of 1995 monopolizing all the power (executive, legislative, judicial, local administration) brought about monopoly in other spheres as well- economy, religion, media, culture, and the principal trigger of development- competition- disappeared. And in these circumstances, when public movement cannot have any part in decision making, it turns into authority: projection of the constitution, and NGOs into a mini-model of the state with similar centralized system, that can do only one thing- earn money by grant projects under the pretence of public activities.

    So, the Constitution of 1995 created a whole vertical anti-democratic system, the engineer of which is Levon Ter-Petrosyan. As the country belonged to one person, and not to the people, hence another single person would be able to take it from him, that’s exactly what happened as a result of power turnover in 1998.

    Of course people have a quality of changing, and one can suppose that Ter-Petrosyan has reconsidered his views about the state structure. However, in his speech he did not criticize the system he had created and talked only about the achievements of his regime. And his ideological speakerphone “Haykakan Zhamanak” with its propaganda of the 1995 Constitution, shows that the former team not only hasn’t undergone any ideological changes, but is even proud and defends the anti-democratic system it had created.

    http://www.armenianow.com/?action=viewArticle&AID=2549&CID=2533&IID=1156&lng=eng

    However, he made the mistake of advocating a compromise peace deal on Karabakh and those in his inner circle led by [Armenian-born] Vazgen Sargsyan forced his resignation.

    Meanwhile, Ter-Petrossian attempted to whip up anti-Karabakh sentiment — the cheapest and lowest form of campaigning rather than offering something different to the electorate — and those supporting the idea of regime change outside of the Armenia jumped at the chance to use it.

    Talking of Vazgen Sargsyan, however, another interesting article from Armenia Now which also talks briefly about the oligarchs. Ironic and this is why we had an election like this. Ter-Petrossian offered nothing different than Sargsyan apart from the fact that he was born in Syria and not Nagorno Karabakh.

    Twelve years ago, 10 years ago and 5 years ago it was hard to imagine a party (the Armenian Revolutionary Federation Dashnaktsutyun) with three ministerial posts in the government would nominate a candidate and could become an alternative by criticizing the government. Or that another candidate Levon Ter-Petrosyan blaming the ruling parties’ candidate in deadly sins is financed by one of the most powerful tycoons Khachik Sukiasyan, who has almost always been by LTP’s side during the rallies.

    Yes, Sukiasyan underwent tax pressures, but those were like a sting as compared to the threats that could be charged on an oligarch if the latter even thought of supporting financially an oppositional candidate, let alone standing by his side in 1996 or 1998. (In 1996 Ruben Hayrapetyan was on the run for supporting Vazgen Manukyan while his father was in prison.)

    […]

    The plots of films and literature pieces, where the prison jailers and the prisoners or the judges and the judged come to replace each other, was almost repeated at the election with just one difference – the ‘jailers’ and the ‘judges’ became ‘prisoners’ and ‘the judged’, but the opposite has not taken place yet. The authorities of yesterday, who once tyrannized others’ will have become victims of tyranny themselves.

    Shavarsh Kocharyan qualified the violence against LTP’s supporters in Artashat the following way: “One of the candidates was hit by the awl he once pointed himself.” Kocharyan meant the cases of beatings of oppositional forces in Ararat province during almost all the campaigns that began in 1995, when Ter-Petrosyan was in power and later, [during the years after his resignation]. Before 1998 the attacks were organized by Vazgen Sargsyan’s brothers Armen, who is in prison and Aram, who backs Ter-Petrosyan against the violence. They used to do that for Ter-Petrosyan and Robert Kocharyan. The pointed awl hit again on Election Day, when LTP’s numerous supporters were beaten, including former head of customs service Yerjanik Abgaryan and former deputy head of national security service Gurgen Yeghiazaryan. Those who have created the fraud and have buried democracy now protest against frauds. And the elections in 1995 and 1996 were not the only time when they did it. Chairman of the Armenian All-National Movement Ararat Zurabyan worked in Robert Kocharyan’s headquarters in 1998 and falsified the results in favor of those who now falsify theirs.

    Not all the former ‘jailers’ have turned into ‘prisoners’, though. The businessmen members of the Yerkrapah Union who were dispersing demonstrators by means of shootings in 1995, distributed bribes to voters in Gyumri for a new candidate and against the former.

    […]

    Before even the first results appeared, the A1+ website posted a statement at about 11:00 p.m. made by the Ter-Petrosyan party announcing his victory in the first round. Unlike 1996 though, this time it was not up to him to decide the winner.

    Nor was it up to the people again.

    http://www.armenianow.com/?action=viewArticle&AID=2857&CID=2797&IID=1175&lng=eng

    Sad, and if Sargsyan relied on money and administrative resources to contest the vote, Ter-Petrossian relied on dividing the country and encouraging hate, destabilizing the nation in the process.
16. GT 03.09.08 / 5pm

    “So, the Constitution of 1995 created a whole vertical anti-democratic system, the engineer of which is Levon Ter-Petrosyan. As the country belonged to one person, and not to the people, hence another single person would be able to take it from him, that’s exactly what happened as a result of power turnover in 1998.”

    I agree that the previous Constitution was worse than the current. The later was adopted in a fraudulent referendum however.
    But I disagree with the statement, that the country belonged to a single person. LTP never had any real economical muscle. He did not own republic economically. Although politically conditions were created for “monarchy”, LTP however preferred to be more like a Queen of England, delegating most of his powers to corresponding ministers. He had little to say about economy, and I don’t think was interfering with PM’s job. The multi-polar government structure (divided among principal members of Kharabakh committee) existing in the first years deteriorated over time as these people started feuding among themselves. By 1996 it practically end up in hands of two the least intellectual members, who had oligarchic tendencies and connections and who in effect brought LTP down. Many errors were committed, that resulted in series of unfortunate events. The errors should be analyzed and discussed, but simply blaming one person in all sins, and current sins, old and new, is wrong. It seems that whatever wrongdoing by RK or SS mentioned, some people say it is LTP to blame.

    Another strong criticism of LTP campaign was about the slogan “who is not with us, is against us”. Sounds ugly, I agree. SS on the other hand has such a conciliatory tone in his speeches. Well of course. He does not need to say it aloud. It goes without saying, that who is not with him, is most probably going to loose their job, their business, or even go to jail.
17. Onnik 03.09.08 / 6pm

    LTP never had any real economical muscle. He did not own republic economically.

    I don’t think you can say Serge and Kocharian own the country as well. Firstly, there has been more foreign privatization under Kocharian whereas under LTP, people like Vano sent the thugs around to make sure his brother-in-law, Khachatur Sukiasian (aka Grzo) got industry at dirt cheap prices. Many were sold off for scrap and whole communities devastated.

    The errors should be analyzed and discussed, but simply blaming one person in all sins, and current sins, old and new, is wrong. It seems that whatever wrongdoing by RK or SS mentioned, some people say it is LTP to blame.

    The president of the Republic of Armenia, especially then when the NA and government had less power than it does after the 2005 referendum, was meant to be in control. The same is also true now although to a much lesser extent as the checks and balances to the system slowly get established.

    Anyway, there was less money in circulation so it’s impossible to say whether Ter-Petrossian would have been the same as those he criticizes today. Indeed, one of the first comments people here made when Ter-Petrossian made his 21 September comeback speech was “Oh, I guess Levon has run out of money now, then.”

    SS on the other hand has such a conciliatory tone in his speeches. Well of course. He does not need to say it aloud. It goes without saying, that who is not with him, is most probably going to loose their job, their business, or even go to jail.

    I think you’re looking at LTP’s time with rose-tinted spectacles or have just forgotten. Back then, activists were jailed as well and a political party was banned. Forget trying to paint Levon as someone better than Serge. They’re pretty much the same and most Armenians here know it.

    Anyway, regarding post-election political oppression, check out how it was when Levon was in power.

    In 1997 I tried to open a Non Governmental Organization. I was refused, I learned, because the National Security Service (KGB) had branded me “an undesired person” due to articles I’d written that were in opposition to the Ter-Petrosyan regime.

    In those times, working in an oppositional newspaper was dangerous. Colleagues of mine were beaten and newspaper offices were targets for being vandalized by authorities. I lived in a building with a dark entrance and often entered with fear of who might be waiting to attack me there.

    A protest wave rose against the falsification of September 22, 1996 presidential election results. Ter-Petrosyan was declared president elect, but the opposition insisted the winner was Vazgen Manukyan and demanded that ballot boxes be opened. The Constitutional Right Union’s “Iravunk” newspaper and ours suspended publication for two weeks, because law-enforcement had closed both newsrooms.

    The protest culminated on the 25th. A decision was made to intrude into the National Assembly, where the Central Electoral Commission was located. People started to shake the barred fence in front of the building and finally broke through. I followed them and, while many sought out officials and beat them (including the Speaker of the Assembly), I went straight for the CEC.

    All of a sudden shots were fired and people around me thinned out. A policeman by the central entrance asked me who I was. I took out documents to show I was a journalist and was “welcomed” by his truncheon glancing off my head as I managed to slip from his beating.

    I reasonably did not spend the night at home; but was foolish enough to go to the center of the city the next day and saw tanks and soldiers surrounding the streets. I saw a friend near the building of the Writers’ Union: “Are you crazy, man? Why have you come?,” he warned. “They are after you, run away!” That friend now lives in Paris and called recently to ask if Levon Ter-Petrosyan’s return is possible.

    During those tense days of 1996 I learned that I was wanted by police; that my name was among those on a list at the airport where I would be detained if I tried to leave the country.

    I changed two apartments, to have my trace lost. The police had gone to ransack my place; my mother had called the neighbors from the window to come stop the search. The neighbors had fled the home.

    […]

    “There were talks all opposition leaders were caught. I used to work in ArmImpexBank next door to the National Self-Determination Union’s office. I thought I could go there for information. Some soldiers stood with Kalashnikov sub-machine guns by the door. They let me in without problem. They would let everybody in, but no one was allowed to leave.

    There were about 15 members of the National Self-Determination Union. Deputy Aramazd Zakaryan was saying: ‘You can’t detain me, I am a deputy.’ They began to harshly beat him; they broke his nose with a Kalashnikov. They began to beat all the men with Kalashnikovs. Women were screaming. Then they arrested all the men, took them to a building on Nalbandyan Street (the Sixth Department of the Police [Department for the fight against organized crime]). We were like dangerous criminals, they were beating us. They ordered us to lie down on the dirty floor. I was thinking: ‘I was a free man an hour ago and had done nothing wrong, but now I am in jail, I am treated like an animal and beaten. What for’?”

    “They took us to a court house and kept us there for six hours. There were many jailed men there. There was an old man, cruelly beaten. Then the judge read the verdict and we were taken to jail. I spent ten days there. My relatives didn’t know where I was for several days.

    […]

    Elections? Democracy? Change in power? The question was closed in 1995-96.

    I had forgotten the past, I was interested in tomorrow. I am a journalist. I wish for a press that is free from control of political forces and where my colleagues and I can earn a proper living. I was thinking of the platforms that would dismantle the regime and set democracy so that every person gets freedom from such things as “dossiers”.

    The return of Ter-Petrosyan is seen as offering an alternative.

    Serzh or Levon? I have no choice. I think of a different thing now: Spare us from the return of the past.

    http://www.armenianow.com/?action=viewArticle&AID=2592&CID=2574&IID=1159&lng=eng
18. GT 03.10.08 / 12am

    “I think you’re looking at LTP’s time with rose-tinted spectacles or have just forgotten. Back then, activists were jailed as well and a political party was banned. Forget trying to paint Levon as someone better than Serge. They’re pretty much the same and most Armenians here know it.”

    Ok, so what you are saying is that there is no hope for any positive change.

    “Serzh or Levon? I have no choice. I think of a different thing now: Spare us from the return of the past.”

    Now, this sentence is very misleading. If Levon is return to the past, then it appears that Serzh is a future.
    May be, if the future is considered in terms of how much “kartoshka u kalbas” people are able to put on their tables. After all Karen Demirchian at one of his appearances in the Opera square in early 88, as a communist party boss, told people to go home and to be happy with just that. Our independence is being surrendered in the last 10 years and I can see it disappearing altogether, with the course taken by Russia and feudal obeisance and dependence of our rulers from Russian Tzar. So much discussed faith of Kharabakh is also put completely in their hands as a bargaining chip. Armenians again are building an “economic-cultural” center in the capital of a foreign state, as it was the case with Constantinople, Tiflis. This time it is Moscow. And mild but steady killings of Armenian youth on the streets of Moscow is of no concern of our “future” rulers.

    Very rosy picture Onnik.
19. Onnik 03.10.08 / 12am

    Well, rosy or not, this is the South Caucasus and experience from other former Soviet republics apart from those in very close proximity to Europe don’t leave us much to be optimistic about. Serge Sargsyan, Levon Ter-Petrossian, Mikheil Saakashvili, Ilham Aliyev… all have shown themselves to slip back to authoritarian tendencies.

    Basically, this is the South Caucaus and this is the mindset. The same patterns can be seen throughout the region and I have no reason to believe that anything other than long-term evolution of a system of checks and balances is going to change matters.

    Yes, the economy and average incomes have grown under Kocharian, Aliyev and Saakashvili, but the model of development when it comes to the opposition, media and human rights is stagnant and maybe even regression. Actually, I think it’s part of a worldwide trend but significantly more amplified here.

    Anyway, I’ll repeat myself again. Although Ter-Petrossian declared himself the victor of the election in a first round at 11pm on voting day (hardly promising for adherence to democratic standards, I think), the fact is that we believe he polled less votes than Sargsyan.

    However, the main thing is not that, perhaps. As I’ve said and I’ve said again, the vote should probably have gone to a second round, but I think that most Armenians consider that Sargsyan or Ter-Petrossian, it doesn’t matter. Nothing is going to change anytime soon here.
20. Michael Lalpin 03.10.08 / 1am

    GT, quote, “… the mild but steady killings of Armenians in Moscow streets are no concern of future leaders” ?

    What a barb thrown indiscriminatly towards the authorities of Armenia…
    Is GT concerned about Armenians killed in LA, Lebanon, or elsewhere?
    Can it be that his opinion is biased solely for the defence of LTP and his failed usurpation of power ?
    This is based on the declaration that LTP made, at 11:00 am on the 19th Feb 08, that he had won the elections ! One wonders about his legitimate status in Armenias political scene!
21. Onnik 03.10.08 / 1am

    Ok, I think I’m going to have to close the comments section of this post to prevent the risk of this argument getting heated. Besides, we’ve made all our points, I think, and we’ll only end up repeating them. Besides, we went off-topic long ago.

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