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	<title>Comments on: Election Day Ends</title>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Onnik</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3082</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3082</guid>
		<description>Interesting article on the perceived legitimacy of presidents in countries such as Armenia.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Elections are not a mechanism for legitimacy-measuring yet, and it’s not February 19 that will be the determining factor for legitimacy. Elections must not only be conducted as a legal process but also they should be free and fair. And elections are acknowledged fair and free in various ways, and different assessments can be heard before the elections and after that. It is objectively impossible to measure legitimacy – any authorities can be considered legitimate if the voters acknowledge their right for legitimate power. Is it possible for a president elected as a result of unfair and not free elections to become legitimate? Getting back to the definition of legitimacy, it should be mentioned that yes, whoever gets elected will be considered legitimate since, according to the culture formed in Armenia, he will automatically obtain the right to rule. Sure, it is not about the constitutional right to rule but about the fact that, on an informal level, he will be obeyed by the representatives of the economic world, the political field, various bureaucratic officials, putting the presidential order above the implementation of the obligations reserved for them by the law. We can find those facts in the incumbent presidential power – even the entrepreneurs accept his power, which is proven by the regular gatherings (which is weird) at the presidential office. These facts, and the hectic wish of a lot of people to obey the RA president, automatically make a president legitimate, no matter how he has been elected. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

http://www.echannel.am/?topic_id=1343&#038;PHPSESSID=3cc069be8de01d0d7b71fe9f30a6e584</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article on the perceived legitimacy of presidents in countries such as Armenia.</p>
<blockquote><p>Elections are not a mechanism for legitimacy-measuring yet, and it’s not February 19 that will be the determining factor for legitimacy. Elections must not only be conducted as a legal process but also they should be free and fair. And elections are acknowledged fair and free in various ways, and different assessments can be heard before the elections and after that. It is objectively impossible to measure legitimacy – any authorities can be considered legitimate if the voters acknowledge their right for legitimate power. Is it possible for a president elected as a result of unfair and not free elections to become legitimate? Getting back to the definition of legitimacy, it should be mentioned that yes, whoever gets elected will be considered legitimate since, according to the culture formed in Armenia, he will automatically obtain the right to rule. Sure, it is not about the constitutional right to rule but about the fact that, on an informal level, he will be obeyed by the representatives of the economic world, the political field, various bureaucratic officials, putting the presidential order above the implementation of the obligations reserved for them by the law. We can find those facts in the incumbent presidential power – even the entrepreneurs accept his power, which is proven by the regular gatherings (which is weird) at the presidential office. These facts, and the hectic wish of a lot of people to obey the RA president, automatically make a president legitimate, no matter how he has been elected. </p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.echannel.am/?topic_id=1343&#038;PHPSESSID=3cc069be8de01d0d7b71fe9f30a6e584" rel="nofollow">http://www.echannel.am/?topic_id=1343&#038;PHPSESSID=3cc069be8de01d0d7b71fe9f30a6e584</a></p>
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		<title>By: Onnik</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3067</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:58:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3067</guid>
		<description>I think my position is clear. As I consider that a second round should have been called and that his vote was inflated with him just squeezing past the 50+1 threshold, I don't consider Sargsyan as the legitimate winner as it shouldn't have been decided in a first round.

As for whether he will be a legitimate president for Armenia, however, only citizens can decide that and it depends on whether he would have won in a second round. On that, it's impossible to tell unless the opposition can get some of the results annulled and new voting called in problem precincts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think my position is clear. As I consider that a second round should have been called and that his vote was inflated with him just squeezing past the 50+1 threshold, I don&#8217;t consider Sargsyan as the legitimate winner as it shouldn&#8217;t have been decided in a first round.</p>
<p>As for whether he will be a legitimate president for Armenia, however, only citizens can decide that and it depends on whether he would have won in a second round. On that, it&#8217;s impossible to tell unless the opposition can get some of the results annulled and new voting called in problem precincts.</p>
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		<title>By: Haik</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3066</link>
		<dc:creator>Haik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:54:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3066</guid>
		<description>A simple question:
Do you find that the elections were fair and clean and therefore do you find that Serzh is the legitimate winner and therefore will be a legitimate president of RA?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A simple question:<br />
Do you find that the elections were fair and clean and therefore do you find that Serzh is the legitimate winner and therefore will be a legitimate president of RA?</p>
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		<title>By: armen</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3058</link>
		<dc:creator>armen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3058</guid>
		<description>with the congratulation notes sent by putin,sakashvili and sarkozy, i think serge's presidency has been credited by outside world.just we have to wait and see united states reaction. 
onnik thnx for ur coverage and also for the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>with the congratulation notes sent by putin,sakashvili and sarkozy, i think serge&#8217;s presidency has been credited by outside world.just we have to wait and see united states reaction.<br />
onnik thnx for ur coverage and also for the article.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3044</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3044</guid>
		<description>An article accused A1+ of spreading pro-Levon propaganda. Based on the opening line to this article, I think they're right: http://www.a1plus.am/en/?page=issue&#38;iid=57970

"...announced the RA First President Levon Ter-Petrosyan, appealing to the 200 thousand participants of the gathering. "

200,000?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An article accused A1+ of spreading pro-Levon propaganda. Based on the opening line to this article, I think they&#8217;re right: <a href="http://www.a1plus.am/en/?page=issue&amp;iid=57970" rel="nofollow">http://www.a1plus.am/en/?page=issue&amp;iid=57970</a></p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;announced the RA First President Levon Ter-Petrosyan, appealing to the 200 thousand participants of the gathering. &#8221;</p>
<p>200,000?!</p>
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		<title>By: Onnik</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3043</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3043</guid>
		<description>Tamar, well, I'm sorry, but preparing for post-election protests is also not democratic especially when his pre-election campaign started long before the official period for doing so and when it amounted to pretty much spewing hatred and accusations against anyone and everyone not supporting him.

Like I said, this is why I never considered the election to stand a hope in hell of being democratic as we know it. For Sargsyan it was about a transfer of power using administrative resources and for Ter-Petrossian about returning to power using street protests by 20-30,000 to do so.

For civil society, too, it was about preventing Serge becoming president at any cost and bringing back Levon, and for those in the pro-government media it was about preventing that. It was about two undemocratic forces against another and was always going to be with Ter-Petrossian involved.

Still, like I said, I consider that a second round should have been called. I think that Sargsyan did not make it past the 50+1 threshold and that as with last year, as much as 20 percentage points were inflated by fraud and especially vote bribes. In order to change this situation, as the OSCE-ODIHR advised, it is now time to try to get the vote annulled in some precincts.

Anyway, reports from the BBC put Ter-Petrossian's rally at 15,000 although I'd say more. Given that his team alleged he had "won" Yerevan, I don't see much evidence of that so far. I also seem to remember that him saying he had 90 percent of the security services on his side too. Again, seems like he wasn't being very honest about either.

Anyway, I think he hoped for "revolution" with international backing based on his line on Azerbaijan and Turkey, but it didn't work. Still, let's see. It's far from over until his demonstrations either fizzle out or end in violence. The one thing in his favor, however, is that his old friend, Gagik Harutyunyan, is head of the Constitutional Court, was his Vice President and appointed to his current position by his former ally. 

Ironically, I daresay Harutyunyan also helped Ter-Petrossian falsify the 1996 election, but his supporters maintain he is still close to Levon. As such, it does amaze me to hear Ter-Petrossian and his supporters talk of democracy. Anyway, what will be, but it's not my fight and I've no intention of putting my neck on the line in a battle to be staged between Ter-Petrossian's undemocratic forces and their counterparts on Sargsyan's side.

That will change when I see evidence of a more mature attempt to present an alternative to the present system by Ter-Petrossian and co.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tamar, well, I&#8217;m sorry, but preparing for post-election protests is also not democratic especially when his pre-election campaign started long before the official period for doing so and when it amounted to pretty much spewing hatred and accusations against anyone and everyone not supporting him.</p>
<p>Like I said, this is why I never considered the election to stand a hope in hell of being democratic as we know it. For Sargsyan it was about a transfer of power using administrative resources and for Ter-Petrossian about returning to power using street protests by 20-30,000 to do so.</p>
<p>For civil society, too, it was about preventing Serge becoming president at any cost and bringing back Levon, and for those in the pro-government media it was about preventing that. It was about two undemocratic forces against another and was always going to be with Ter-Petrossian involved.</p>
<p>Still, like I said, I consider that a second round should have been called. I think that Sargsyan did not make it past the 50+1 threshold and that as with last year, as much as 20 percentage points were inflated by fraud and especially vote bribes. In order to change this situation, as the OSCE-ODIHR advised, it is now time to try to get the vote annulled in some precincts.</p>
<p>Anyway, reports from the BBC put Ter-Petrossian&#8217;s rally at 15,000 although I&#8217;d say more. Given that his team alleged he had &#8220;won&#8221; Yerevan, I don&#8217;t see much evidence of that so far. I also seem to remember that him saying he had 90 percent of the security services on his side too. Again, seems like he wasn&#8217;t being very honest about either.</p>
<p>Anyway, I think he hoped for &#8220;revolution&#8221; with international backing based on his line on Azerbaijan and Turkey, but it didn&#8217;t work. Still, let&#8217;s see. It&#8217;s far from over until his demonstrations either fizzle out or end in violence. The one thing in his favor, however, is that his old friend, Gagik Harutyunyan, is head of the Constitutional Court, was his Vice President and appointed to his current position by his former ally. </p>
<p>Ironically, I daresay Harutyunyan also helped Ter-Petrossian falsify the 1996 election, but his supporters maintain he is still close to Levon. As such, it does amaze me to hear Ter-Petrossian and his supporters talk of democracy. Anyway, what will be, but it&#8217;s not my fight and I&#8217;ve no intention of putting my neck on the line in a battle to be staged between Ter-Petrossian&#8217;s undemocratic forces and their counterparts on Sargsyan&#8217;s side.</p>
<p>That will change when I see evidence of a more mature attempt to present an alternative to the present system by Ter-Petrossian and co.</p>
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		<title>By: Tamar</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3042</link>
		<dc:creator>Tamar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3042</guid>
		<description>again, thanks for sharing your thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>again, thanks for sharing your thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: Tamar</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3040</link>
		<dc:creator>Tamar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:21:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3040</guid>
		<description>You make a very good point about LTP and wanting to protest and get people on the streets.  LTP camp as well as others knew that there would be violations in the election.  And I'd even argue that LTP's statements right after elections that "he won victoriously" was not that he won the votes, but rather he and many others knew that these wouldn't be "free and fair elections", both on election day and in the pre-election campaign.  Now it's a matter of how aggressively the security bodies react to these protests which might feed the fire or... dare I say,  not provoke at all because people know that these protests will not lead to anything or as you say, one of the three options you present.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make a very good point about LTP and wanting to protest and get people on the streets.  LTP camp as well as others knew that there would be violations in the election.  And I&#8217;d even argue that LTP&#8217;s statements right after elections that &#8220;he won victoriously&#8221; was not that he won the votes, but rather he and many others knew that these wouldn&#8217;t be &#8220;free and fair elections&#8221;, both on election day and in the pre-election campaign.  Now it&#8217;s a matter of how aggressively the security bodies react to these protests which might feed the fire or&#8230; dare I say,  not provoke at all because people know that these protests will not lead to anything or as you say, one of the three options you present.</p>
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		<title>By: Onnik</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3039</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3039</guid>
		<description>Haik, all of those people were meant to be on Levon's team now, no? Seems like they weren't. Anyway, the courts are there, as are the OSCE-ODIHR LTOs, and they must be used. Only by pushing the system and exposing its weaknesses will it change although interestingly, it's the same system that secured Ter-Petrossian a second term in office in 1996. Ironic.

Tamar, well, I will be very happy if that happens because otherwise civil society will lose credibility. It must have proof and it must use the law and Armenia's international obligations to change the situation. Indeed, this is the only way things change, but yes, I know it's slow.

Meanwhile, on the subject of the courts, the OSCE-ODIHR concluded that yesterday's presidential election was largely in line with international standards, but shortcomings remain. They also said that the courts must be used by the opposition and criticized Ter-Petrossian for organizing today's rally weeks in advance.

My take? Serge didn't get over 50 percent of the vote and nor did Levon. Serge "probably" got more votes than Levon, but a second round should have been called. However, gut reaction from most people I've spoken to is one of indifference or, well, it's not good, but it's not bad either.

The problem is that election day itself was never in Ter-Petrossian's mind. It was about the street protests afterwards, but with the international community not backing him he has only three options.

i) use the courts while holding rallies at the same time as a bit of leverage.

ii) hold rallies and march around until people get bored and it all ends a few weeks later.

iii) hold rallies and seize a building.

Anyway, some of us are still concerned about the possibility of clashes, but let's see. More later, but for now, just to say that when I was outside the Matenadaran at 3pm there were less people than Demirchian gathered in 2003. That could have changed later, however.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haik, all of those people were meant to be on Levon&#8217;s team now, no? Seems like they weren&#8217;t. Anyway, the courts are there, as are the OSCE-ODIHR LTOs, and they must be used. Only by pushing the system and exposing its weaknesses will it change although interestingly, it&#8217;s the same system that secured Ter-Petrossian a second term in office in 1996. Ironic.</p>
<p>Tamar, well, I will be very happy if that happens because otherwise civil society will lose credibility. It must have proof and it must use the law and Armenia&#8217;s international obligations to change the situation. Indeed, this is the only way things change, but yes, I know it&#8217;s slow.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, on the subject of the courts, the OSCE-ODIHR concluded that yesterday&#8217;s presidential election was largely in line with international standards, but shortcomings remain. They also said that the courts must be used by the opposition and criticized Ter-Petrossian for organizing today&#8217;s rally weeks in advance.</p>
<p>My take? Serge didn&#8217;t get over 50 percent of the vote and nor did Levon. Serge &#8220;probably&#8221; got more votes than Levon, but a second round should have been called. However, gut reaction from most people I&#8217;ve spoken to is one of indifference or, well, it&#8217;s not good, but it&#8217;s not bad either.</p>
<p>The problem is that election day itself was never in Ter-Petrossian&#8217;s mind. It was about the street protests afterwards, but with the international community not backing him he has only three options.</p>
<p>i) use the courts while holding rallies at the same time as a bit of leverage.</p>
<p>ii) hold rallies and march around until people get bored and it all ends a few weeks later.</p>
<p>iii) hold rallies and seize a building.</p>
<p>Anyway, some of us are still concerned about the possibility of clashes, but let&#8217;s see. More later, but for now, just to say that when I was outside the Matenadaran at 3pm there were less people than Demirchian gathered in 2003. That could have changed later, however.</p>
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		<title>By: Tamar</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3037</link>
		<dc:creator>Tamar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3037</guid>
		<description>I completely understand Onnik and agree with you regarding the vote.  It looks like this time around, however, various Armenian media websites have also been keen about reporting specific violations they have seen.  This is a big step.  Sounds like civil society might be getting their act together to act upon some of these violations and take them to court and actually take steps towards justice?  Some initial steps, at least...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely understand Onnik and agree with you regarding the vote.  It looks like this time around, however, various Armenian media websites have also been keen about reporting specific violations they have seen.  This is a big step.  Sounds like civil society might be getting their act together to act upon some of these violations and take them to court and actually take steps towards justice?  Some initial steps, at least&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Haik</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3033</link>
		<dc:creator>Haik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3033</guid>
		<description>Hi Onnik
In whose courts of laws? They are the Serj's courts of laws.
Let put the elections aside and tell me frankly.
Who governs Armenia now? If you don’t know I can answer.
It is governed by the mobs and the neighbourhood gangs and their big brothers. Pick any mayor, or taghapets look at their past and current activities. They are all mobs and clan members. 
Do you want to live and raise your son in such an Armenia? 
What the international observers will say? I was an International observer, the observers who do the foot work are fair and honest but the ones at the top are the ones who make the decision.
For them a weak Armenia is a good Armenia. a corrupt and 3rd world country Armenia is controllable. a Corrupt, criminal and gambler president is predictable.
Elections or no elections things should change in Armenia if we want to have our place in this world. 
Now go and figure out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Onnik<br />
In whose courts of laws? They are the Serj&#8217;s courts of laws.<br />
Let put the elections aside and tell me frankly.<br />
Who governs Armenia now? If you don’t know I can answer.<br />
It is governed by the mobs and the neighbourhood gangs and their big brothers. Pick any mayor, or taghapets look at their past and current activities. They are all mobs and clan members.<br />
Do you want to live and raise your son in such an Armenia?<br />
What the international observers will say? I was an International observer, the observers who do the foot work are fair and honest but the ones at the top are the ones who make the decision.<br />
For them a weak Armenia is a good Armenia. a corrupt and 3rd world country Armenia is controllable. a Corrupt, criminal and gambler president is predictable.<br />
Elections or no elections things should change in Armenia if we want to have our place in this world.<br />
Now go and figure out.</p>
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		<title>By: Onnik</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3031</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3031</guid>
		<description>Artyom, in an hour at a press conference at the Marriott.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Artyom, in an hour at a press conference at the Marriott.</p>
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		<title>By: Onnik</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3030</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3030</guid>
		<description>Tamar, like I said, I think the vote was inflated through various means and it's up to Ter-Petrossian and his allies and friends at A1 Plus, RFE/RL and much of civil society to present evidence, use the courts and so on. This is what needs to happen and not declaring himself victor and preparing for street protests. 

The fact that these videos exist is already a good sign, but the law must be followed until all possibilities are exhausted. It is also important to note again that the clear picture will come from a variety sources. The main issue is was the outcome of the vote distorted and for that, I have to rely on the assessment of non-partisan domestic and international observers.

As for violence, I don't doubt there was some. Indeed, there were also reports fo Ter-Petrossian's people attacking and intimidating PECs. Did anyone expect there wouldn't be trouble? I certainly didn't, but I say again, I saw no problems at the polling stations I was at for the time I was there.

And that I'm afraid, is all this post is about. If you don't like it, what do you want me to do? Make up stories like I'm sure was also done yesterday. Anyway, this election was only about a battle. A corrupt former elite trying to return to power and a corrupt present elite trying to maintain it. On that basis alone, I lost hope in this election sometime towards the end of last year.

Now what most impartial observers are waiting for is to read the OSCE/ODIHR preliminary report. Plus, of course, to see whether clashes now occur on the streets. If Ter-Petrossian gathers 30-40,000 it's not going to change anything or even indicate a high level of support in society. If he gets 100,000 then it's another matter entirely. I

 will also talk to some others and as I said, try to assess the situation, but for now, while I don't believe Levon won, I also don't believe Serge got enough votes to avoid a second round. On the other hand, none of us as individuals have a clear picture of the true voting preferences of the electorate.

This is why IYC and OSCE/ODIHR are so important.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tamar, like I said, I think the vote was inflated through various means and it&#8217;s up to Ter-Petrossian and his allies and friends at A1 Plus, RFE/RL and much of civil society to present evidence, use the courts and so on. This is what needs to happen and not declaring himself victor and preparing for street protests. </p>
<p>The fact that these videos exist is already a good sign, but the law must be followed until all possibilities are exhausted. It is also important to note again that the clear picture will come from a variety sources. The main issue is was the outcome of the vote distorted and for that, I have to rely on the assessment of non-partisan domestic and international observers.</p>
<p>As for violence, I don&#8217;t doubt there was some. Indeed, there were also reports fo Ter-Petrossian&#8217;s people attacking and intimidating PECs. Did anyone expect there wouldn&#8217;t be trouble? I certainly didn&#8217;t, but I say again, I saw no problems at the polling stations I was at for the time I was there.</p>
<p>And that I&#8217;m afraid, is all this post is about. If you don&#8217;t like it, what do you want me to do? Make up stories like I&#8217;m sure was also done yesterday. Anyway, this election was only about a battle. A corrupt former elite trying to return to power and a corrupt present elite trying to maintain it. On that basis alone, I lost hope in this election sometime towards the end of last year.</p>
<p>Now what most impartial observers are waiting for is to read the OSCE/ODIHR preliminary report. Plus, of course, to see whether clashes now occur on the streets. If Ter-Petrossian gathers 30-40,000 it&#8217;s not going to change anything or even indicate a high level of support in society. If he gets 100,000 then it&#8217;s another matter entirely. I</p>
<p> will also talk to some others and as I said, try to assess the situation, but for now, while I don&#8217;t believe Levon won, I also don&#8217;t believe Serge got enough votes to avoid a second round. On the other hand, none of us as individuals have a clear picture of the true voting preferences of the electorate.</p>
<p>This is why IYC and OSCE/ODIHR are so important.</p>
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		<title>By: artyom</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3028</link>
		<dc:creator>artyom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3028</guid>
		<description>when is OSCE/ODIHR report expected to come out?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>when is OSCE/ODIHR report expected to come out?</p>
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		<title>By: Onnik</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3027</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3027</guid>
		<description>Aram, I think this is an important point. Populus is internationally known and works for high profile clients with a huge reputation at stake. The other poll was conducted without a known body supervising and checking the results and was also conducted by various civil society groups who not only probably don't know much about polling methodology, but were undoubtedly biased against Sargsyan. 

Indeed, civil society as a whole here took sides pretty much as soon as Ter-Petrossian returned even though I never saw much sign of that being reflected ins society. However, as I've said before, while the situation was calm at the polling stations I was at, that's not to say I don't believe falsification didn't occur. That said, it is now up to the opposition to prove it and in particular, I am waiting on the OSCE/ODIHR report.

Then I will try tor each my own conclusion although at the moment it veers towards Serge's vote being inflated to avoid a second round. I certainly don't believe Ter-Petrossian won or even got close. Besides, for them and many in civil society it was never about that. It was only about street protests the day after polling day.

Anyway, I want to hear what the international observers say first, but given that their statements are generally watered down according to political objectives, it is important to read their interim report which will be made available at the same time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aram, I think this is an important point. Populus is internationally known and works for high profile clients with a huge reputation at stake. The other poll was conducted without a known body supervising and checking the results and was also conducted by various civil society groups who not only probably don&#8217;t know much about polling methodology, but were undoubtedly biased against Sargsyan. </p>
<p>Indeed, civil society as a whole here took sides pretty much as soon as Ter-Petrossian returned even though I never saw much sign of that being reflected ins society. However, as I&#8217;ve said before, while the situation was calm at the polling stations I was at, that&#8217;s not to say I don&#8217;t believe falsification didn&#8217;t occur. That said, it is now up to the opposition to prove it and in particular, I am waiting on the OSCE/ODIHR report.</p>
<p>Then I will try tor each my own conclusion although at the moment it veers towards Serge&#8217;s vote being inflated to avoid a second round. I certainly don&#8217;t believe Ter-Petrossian won or even got close. Besides, for them and many in civil society it was never about that. It was only about street protests the day after polling day.</p>
<p>Anyway, I want to hear what the international observers say first, but given that their statements are generally watered down according to political objectives, it is important to read their interim report which will be made available at the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: Onnik</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3026</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3026</guid>
		<description>Hayk, in none of the cases could these guys have known who I was when I entered and not least because later int he day, the queues were huge and the PEC members were trying to keep that in order. Moreover, please remember that at least two members of each PEC were from alternative candidates -- Heritage, OYP, and ARF-D. The same is true for the CEC so let's see if all the protocols have been signed by every PEC member. 

Also, at the polling stations I was at, there were some IYC observers (eventually) and the proxies for Ter-Petrossian, Serge Sargsyan and Vazgen Manukian. They were even allowed to film events although once again, I have to say that I am concerned that I saw only 2 fill out parallel voter count sheets.  

I'd still like to know what that is because it's a glaring omission, in my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hayk, in none of the cases could these guys have known who I was when I entered and not least because later int he day, the queues were huge and the PEC members were trying to keep that in order. Moreover, please remember that at least two members of each PEC were from alternative candidates &#8212; Heritage, OYP, and ARF-D. The same is true for the CEC so let&#8217;s see if all the protocols have been signed by every PEC member. </p>
<p>Also, at the polling stations I was at, there were some IYC observers (eventually) and the proxies for Ter-Petrossian, Serge Sargsyan and Vazgen Manukian. They were even allowed to film events although once again, I have to say that I am concerned that I saw only 2 fill out parallel voter count sheets.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d still like to know what that is because it&#8217;s a glaring omission, in my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: artyom</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3022</link>
		<dc:creator>artyom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 04:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3022</guid>
		<description>onnik, you'va done it again. the best reporting par none. all these armenian sites can go and suck the sewer pipe, all of them and all at once. you have shown the way my friend. this is how professional journalism should look like. and no i am not sucking up. best. artyom</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>onnik, you&#8217;va done it again. the best reporting par none. all these armenian sites can go and suck the sewer pipe, all of them and all at once. you have shown the way my friend. this is how professional journalism should look like. and no i am not sucking up. best. artyom</p>
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		<title>By: Aram</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3021</link>
		<dc:creator>Aram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 04:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3021</guid>
		<description>Polls are all about methodology.  Who do you trust?  Is there an international outfit which has exit poll results markedly different from the announced results?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Polls are all about methodology.  Who do you trust?  Is there an international outfit which has exit poll results markedly different from the announced results?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3018</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:35:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3018</guid>
		<description>I'm utterly perplexed by what's going on. So one exit poll says Levon wins by 54% and another says Serge by 57%?! I can't imagine that big a difference and makes me wonder what's up. While the 57% Serge number does seem to tend more towards the expectation, 57% does still seem high. At the same time I can't believe 54% LTP. If I had to guess I'd say both polls are off and the real results (which are likely different than whatever the official results will say) is somewhere towards the middle of both those numbers.
I know there was a lot of fraud but Levon is totally posturing with this victory parade- it was certainly planned all along no matter what occured on election day. I would think even a totally peaceful and fraudless day with the same Serge-probably-won rumors would still be met with a Levon victory parade. By acting convinced of his win, Levon builds himself a platform from which to begin the street protests- since the official results likely under 20% in his favor will not be able to do it. By beating election results to the punch he can decry as fraud the numbers when they come in- since after all he already declared victory did he not!

I am not trying to be hard on Levon, I think the government was responsible for a lot of bad stuff from what little I know. I really don't know if the under 20%results for Levon matches reality or not and think if he's going to make a serious go of these protests he has to do these things. But is that good for the country? Is massive government fraud good for the country? Is it better to sacrifice protesting some fraud in a election to have stability and just accept as winner a guy who probably would have won without the fraud? I don't know a lot of (rambling) questions. 

The thing I am most interested in though is that 54% for Levon exit poll. While an exit poll certainly can result with widely different results than the actual election, what is behind that huge disparity? Is the one favorable to the Levon connected to him or his supporters in any way? I say this because while polls leading up to the vote always had him as below 20%, the other exit poll has him around that level, and now there's this random one with him at a seemingly astronomical 54%. It creates a convenient branch for Levon to hold on to indicating maybe he really was the winner despite everything else indicating otherwise and to fuel his protests. Clearly if both exit polls said 50+ for Serge he really wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on (though he'd still have his parade) but this does make you wonder. And who knows- maybe it even is the more correct one and Serge did lose...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m utterly perplexed by what&#8217;s going on. So one exit poll says Levon wins by 54% and another says Serge by 57%?! I can&#8217;t imagine that big a difference and makes me wonder what&#8217;s up. While the 57% Serge number does seem to tend more towards the expectation, 57% does still seem high. At the same time I can&#8217;t believe 54% LTP. If I had to guess I&#8217;d say both polls are off and the real results (which are likely different than whatever the official results will say) is somewhere towards the middle of both those numbers.<br />
I know there was a lot of fraud but Levon is totally posturing with this victory parade- it was certainly planned all along no matter what occured on election day. I would think even a totally peaceful and fraudless day with the same Serge-probably-won rumors would still be met with a Levon victory parade. By acting convinced of his win, Levon builds himself a platform from which to begin the street protests- since the official results likely under 20% in his favor will not be able to do it. By beating election results to the punch he can decry as fraud the numbers when they come in- since after all he already declared victory did he not!</p>
<p>I am not trying to be hard on Levon, I think the government was responsible for a lot of bad stuff from what little I know. I really don&#8217;t know if the under 20%results for Levon matches reality or not and think if he&#8217;s going to make a serious go of these protests he has to do these things. But is that good for the country? Is massive government fraud good for the country? Is it better to sacrifice protesting some fraud in a election to have stability and just accept as winner a guy who probably would have won without the fraud? I don&#8217;t know a lot of (rambling) questions. </p>
<p>The thing I am most interested in though is that 54% for Levon exit poll. While an exit poll certainly can result with widely different results than the actual election, what is behind that huge disparity? Is the one favorable to the Levon connected to him or his supporters in any way? I say this because while polls leading up to the vote always had him as below 20%, the other exit poll has him around that level, and now there&#8217;s this random one with him at a seemingly astronomical 54%. It creates a convenient branch for Levon to hold on to indicating maybe he really was the winner despite everything else indicating otherwise and to fuel his protests. Clearly if both exit polls said 50+ for Serge he really wouldn&#8217;t have much of a leg to stand on (though he&#8217;d still have his parade) but this does make you wonder. And who knows- maybe it even is the more correct one and Serge did lose&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Allen</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3017</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/02/20/election-day-ends/#comment-3017</guid>
		<description>fight at a poll station
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJVfTVSWRY0&#38;eurl=http://ucla.facebook.com/posted.php?ref=sb</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fight at a poll station<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJVfTVSWRY0&amp;eurl=http://ucla.facebook.com/posted.php?ref=sb" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJVfTVSWRY0&amp;eurl=http://ucla.facebook.com/posted.php?ref=sb</a></p>
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