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	<title>Comments on: Democratization in Nagorno Karabakh</title>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 04:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: GT</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2007/07/18/democratization-in-nagorno-karabakh/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>GT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 02:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/?p=14#comment-45</guid>
		<description>Onnik,
I think Raffi Hovannisian occupies appropriate niche in the political landscape of Armenia but stands no chance of being elected a president or majority in parlament, and therefore was allowed to play and enter parlament this time. Of course if not administrative machine, he may have gathered a little more votes. The same I think goes for AB. Their presence in opposition makes look governing party much better. 
My point was that if someone represents a real treat to a Karabakh clan he/she will be crashed, ousted or illiminated in much more serios way than being imprisoned for a meager 50000$. If you compare poltical climate in Armenia and Russia you will see that certain things being tasted in one place and implemented in other, like the two competing pro-government parties or harrasing people who try to influence election process by financial means (Khodorkovski). So if necesity arises, I think Armenia may find its own poisoned oppositioners in a distant and foggy lands. These people are capable to  kill openly a person in Poplavok toilet for simple insulting tone....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Onnik,<br />
I think Raffi Hovannisian occupies appropriate niche in the political landscape of Armenia but stands no chance of being elected a president or majority in parlament, and therefore was allowed to play and enter parlament this time. Of course if not administrative machine, he may have gathered a little more votes. The same I think goes for AB. Their presence in opposition makes look governing party much better.<br />
My point was that if someone represents a real treat to a Karabakh clan he/she will be crashed, ousted or illiminated in much more serios way than being imprisoned for a meager 50000$. If you compare poltical climate in Armenia and Russia you will see that certain things being tasted in one place and implemented in other, like the two competing pro-government parties or harrasing people who try to influence election process by financial means (Khodorkovski). So if necesity arises, I think Armenia may find its own poisoned oppositioners in a distant and foggy lands. These people are capable to  kill openly a person in Poplavok toilet for simple insulting tone&#8230;.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Onnik</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2007/07/18/democratization-in-nagorno-karabakh/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/?p=14#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Well, yes, I agree that the international community makes political decisions with regards to whether it concludes an election were an improvement or not, although I will have to say that compared to past elections, I found this one more sophisticated and organized.

Please note that I did not say it was democratic. However, what was most depressing was that shameful situation the radical opposition found itself in. Nevertheless, I don't believe that Armenia is devoid of valuable people who could lead a proper opposition, and for sure, Raffi Hovannisian is one.&lt;/p&gt;

And to date, very little has happened to him or any other opposition leaders. Ironically, Alexander Arzoumanyan appeared out of nowhere, but look what happened to him, and I still don't quite understand why. Okay, so it looks like he did receive money from abroad to promote civil disobedience, but I'm not sure if would have succeeded.

Yes, he was the last Foreign Minister under LTP, and yes, he more intelligent than most opposition figures. However, up until his arrest he seemed to spend most of his time translating Hetq Online alongside his wife. Hardly a threat to anyone, I'd say, but anyway. Nevertheless, it is interesting to view certain developments in Armenia and to try to analyze them.

For example, it isn't just Arzoumanyan. It's also Zhirayr Sefilyan and Vardan Malkhasyan. Likewise, even if any of these guys were planning to initiate some kind of embryonic revolutionary movement, it is up to the authorities to prove it in a court of law which they clearly can't, hence the constant extension of 2-month pre-trial detention.

Which leads us back to the international community. What are they doing about these cases, and isn't it time for the Council of Europe in particular to consider them political prisoners or at least openly examine that possibilty?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, yes, I agree that the international community makes political decisions with regards to whether it concludes an election were an improvement or not, although I will have to say that compared to past elections, I found this one more sophisticated and organized.</p>
<p>Please note that I did not say it was democratic. However, what was most depressing was that shameful situation the radical opposition found itself in. Nevertheless, I don&#8217;t believe that Armenia is devoid of valuable people who could lead a proper opposition, and for sure, Raffi Hovannisian is one.</p>
<p>And to date, very little has happened to him or any other opposition leaders. Ironically, Alexander Arzoumanyan appeared out of nowhere, but look what happened to him, and I still don&#8217;t quite understand why. Okay, so it looks like he did receive money from abroad to promote civil disobedience, but I&#8217;m not sure if would have succeeded.</p>
<p>Yes, he was the last Foreign Minister under LTP, and yes, he more intelligent than most opposition figures. However, up until his arrest he seemed to spend most of his time translating Hetq Online alongside his wife. Hardly a threat to anyone, I&#8217;d say, but anyway. Nevertheless, it is interesting to view certain developments in Armenia and to try to analyze them.</p>
<p>For example, it isn&#8217;t just Arzoumanyan. It&#8217;s also Zhirayr Sefilyan and Vardan Malkhasyan. Likewise, even if any of these guys were planning to initiate some kind of embryonic revolutionary movement, it is up to the authorities to prove it in a court of law which they clearly can&#8217;t, hence the constant extension of 2-month pre-trial detention.</p>
<p>Which leads us back to the international community. What are they doing about these cases, and isn&#8217;t it time for the Council of Europe in particular to consider them political prisoners or at least openly examine that possibilty?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: GT</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2007/07/18/democratization-in-nagorno-karabakh/#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>GT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 08:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/?p=14#comment-29</guid>
		<description>Hi, 
I am not familiar with the election environment in Kharabakh, but in Armenia its not that simple. I mean opposition in Armenia is a shame, but one of the reasons is that being a real opposition is life treatening. Valuable people were forced out of Armenia and a few of them were made to understand that it is a matter of life for themselves and family memebrs. Consider just the fate of Alexsandr Arzumanian, the guy just do not have magnitude and ability to pose a real danger to Robert or Serj, he was  jailed only as a reminder for everyone else who may think of mendling into the election affairs.
On the other hand, I do not know what the opinion of girl from Serbia  was, but I read with interest account of "Democracy Guy" of past elections, particularly part concerning US embassy and their agencies role in forming the international opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,<br />
I am not familiar with the election environment in Kharabakh, but in Armenia its not that simple. I mean opposition in Armenia is a shame, but one of the reasons is that being a real opposition is life treatening. Valuable people were forced out of Armenia and a few of them were made to understand that it is a matter of life for themselves and family memebrs. Consider just the fate of Alexsandr Arzumanian, the guy just do not have magnitude and ability to pose a real danger to Robert or Serj, he was  jailed only as a reminder for everyone else who may think of mendling into the election affairs.<br />
On the other hand, I do not know what the opinion of girl from Serbia  was, but I read with interest account of &#8220;Democracy Guy&#8221; of past elections, particularly part concerning US embassy and their agencies role in forming the international opinion.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Onnik</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2007/07/18/democratization-in-nagorno-karabakh/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 08:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/?p=14#comment-28</guid>
		<description>The first update on today's voting in Karabakh seems to have been &lt;a href="http://home.a1plus.am/en/?page=issue&#038;iid=51526" rel="nofollow"&gt;posted by A1 Plus&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;blockquote&gt;ELECTIONS COMPLETED

A1 Plus, 19 July, 2007

Today the citizens of Nagorno-Karabakh are electing the president of the Republic. The elections started at 08:00 a.m.. The presidential aspirants are Bako Sahakyan and Masis Mayilyan.

Masis Mayilyan’s proxies have already registered some cases of rigging, which are submitted to the Central Electoral Commission. “A group of people, presenting themselves as the supporters of Bako Sahakyan, crowded at number 4/1 and 4/2 polling stations since 09:00 a.m.

Boris Gasparyan and Grigor Gasparyan, proxies, appealed to the chairmen of the electoral commissions to keep the people at a certain distance from the polling stations as it was set up by the Electoral Code”.

At number 4/7 polling station the elections were completed at 10:45 a.m., and that is verified by the following announcement disseminated by Mayilyan’s proxies: “This fact is not only the violation of the NKR Electoral Code, since according to the legislation the polling station should be open till 20:00 p.m., it is also the violation of electoral rights of the NKR citizens”. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first update on today&#8217;s voting in Karabakh seems to have been <a href="http://home.a1plus.am/en/?page=issue&#038;iid=51526" rel="nofollow">posted by A1 Plus</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>ELECTIONS COMPLETED</p>
<p>A1 Plus, 19 July, 2007</p>
<p>Today the citizens of Nagorno-Karabakh are electing the president of the Republic. The elections started at 08:00 a.m.. The presidential aspirants are Bako Sahakyan and Masis Mayilyan.</p>
<p>Masis Mayilyan’s proxies have already registered some cases of rigging, which are submitted to the Central Electoral Commission. “A group of people, presenting themselves as the supporters of Bako Sahakyan, crowded at number 4/1 and 4/2 polling stations since 09:00 a.m.</p>
<p>Boris Gasparyan and Grigor Gasparyan, proxies, appealed to the chairmen of the electoral commissions to keep the people at a certain distance from the polling stations as it was set up by the Electoral Code”.</p>
<p>At number 4/7 polling station the elections were completed at 10:45 a.m., and that is verified by the following announcement disseminated by Mayilyan’s proxies: “This fact is not only the violation of the NKR Electoral Code, since according to the legislation the polling station should be open till 20:00 p.m., it is also the violation of electoral rights of the NKR citizens”. </p></blockquote>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Onnik</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2007/07/18/democratization-in-nagorno-karabakh/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 07:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/?p=14#comment-27</guid>
		<description>Even more ironic when you consider that on election day when I ran into her at a polling station in Arabkir chasing up multiple leads on violations in her district she hadn't heard of  them and nor could other LTOs she contacted for me. 

Well, I suppose most of the stuff happened before and after the vote itself. That is, vote bribes and vote counting. Still, as strange as that might sound for Armenia, this is an improvement. However, there is no way the election could be considered democratic although it did mark a step forward.

Yes, yes, I know, new ways of falsifying materialized instead, but they were less obscene and identifiable than in the past. For example, I suppose the Republican Party vote was grossly inflated and I saw huge amounts of people being bussed in to polling stations.

However, while I might wonder if these guys weren't bribed and bussed in I can't prove it, and nor can the international observers hence the preliminary report. Instead, opposition parties and supportive NGOs couldn't prove it either. And the results also didn't push tens of thousands of people out onto the streets.

As I've said before, everyone was to blame for the election in Armenia, but we can at least hope that the ways in which it was an improvement over past elections can be built upon in time for 2008, Meanwhile, back to Karabakh, it will be interesting to hear what foreign journalists have to say about that vote.

Of course, it won't be international observation missions such as the OSCE because Europe and the United States will not recognize them or even commend them if they are a shining example to the rest of the former Soviet world in Central Asia and the Caucasus at least.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even more ironic when you consider that on election day when I ran into her at a polling station in Arabkir chasing up multiple leads on violations in her district she hadn&#8217;t heard of  them and nor could other LTOs she contacted for me. </p>
<p>Well, I suppose most of the stuff happened before and after the vote itself. That is, vote bribes and vote counting. Still, as strange as that might sound for Armenia, this is an improvement. However, there is no way the election could be considered democratic although it did mark a step forward.</p>
<p>Yes, yes, I know, new ways of falsifying materialized instead, but they were less obscene and identifiable than in the past. For example, I suppose the Republican Party vote was grossly inflated and I saw huge amounts of people being bussed in to polling stations.</p>
<p>However, while I might wonder if these guys weren&#8217;t bribed and bussed in I can&#8217;t prove it, and nor can the international observers hence the preliminary report. Instead, opposition parties and supportive NGOs couldn&#8217;t prove it either. And the results also didn&#8217;t push tens of thousands of people out onto the streets.</p>
<p>As I&#8217;ve said before, everyone was to blame for the election in Armenia, but we can at least hope that the ways in which it was an improvement over past elections can be built upon in time for 2008, Meanwhile, back to Karabakh, it will be interesting to hear what foreign journalists have to say about that vote.</p>
<p>Of course, it won&#8217;t be international observation missions such as the OSCE because Europe and the United States will not recognize them or even commend them if they are a shining example to the rest of the former Soviet world in Central Asia and the Caucasus at least.</p>
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		<title>By: Myrthe</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2007/07/18/democratization-in-nagorno-karabakh/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>Myrthe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 05:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/?p=14#comment-25</guid>
		<description>Ironically, I know that the "girl from Serbia" who the activist was complaining to, held a much, much more negative (and accurate) view of the elections in Armenia than that stated in the first OSCE report.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ironically, I know that the &#8220;girl from Serbia&#8221; who the activist was complaining to, held a much, much more negative (and accurate) view of the elections in Armenia than that stated in the first OSCE report.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Oneworld Multimedia :: Democratization in Nagorno Karabakh :: July :: 2007</title>
		<link>http://blog.oneworld.am/2007/07/18/democratization-in-nagorno-karabakh/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Oneworld Multimedia :: Democratization in Nagorno Karabakh :: July :: 2007</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oneworld.am/?p=14#comment-20</guid>
		<description>[...] full post is here.    Posted by Onnik @ 7:27 pm. Filed under: Armenia, Democracy, Azerbaijan, Karabakh, Caucasus, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] full post is here.    Posted by Onnik @ 7:27 pm. Filed under: Armenia, Democracy, Azerbaijan, Karabakh, Caucasus, [&#8230;]</p>
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